Council was called to order on July 16, 1997 at 7:00 p.m. by President of Council Randy Danbury.

The Pledge of Allegiance was recited by the governmental body and those in attendance. The Invocation was given by Mr. Knox.

Roll call was taken by Mr. Knox. Present were Council members Boice, Galster, Manis, McNear, Vanover, Wilson and Danbury.

The minutes of June 18, 1997 were approved with 7 affirmative votes.

The minutes of July 2, 1997 were approved with 6 affirmative votes. Mr. Wilson abstained.


Mayor Webster said it's great to see so many people in Council. We should give awards every week. In prior years the Garden Club has been an integral part of judging the landscaping but this year due to the fact that their membership has dwindled, they were not able to help us with the judging this year. I would just like to take this opportunity to tell you that I thoroughly enjoyed doing this but it was about 15-16 hours of driving 5 miles an hour or less throughout the City of Springdale. As you know we have the City divided into 7 districts so we went through one district, made a list of those we thought deserved further consideration and then we'd go back and eliminate some. It was an extremely tough job to do. We have all these people here tonight who are going to get an award and there could be this many more who deserve an honorable mention. To the people who do not get an award tonight I would like to say thank you very much for your contribution in beautifying the City of Springdale. I want to thank my daughter, Julie Matheny for chauffeuring my wife and me throughout the City. She couldn't make it the last evening and I did it myself and I didn't sleep that evening because I had cramps in my legs from starting and stopping the car so I know what she went through there. I would like to thank my wife for helping judge this.

The overall winner in previous years has received a Mayor's Award. Due to the passing of one of the charter members of our Springdale Garden Club, Fay Marion Howard, I have renamed that award the Fay Marion Howard Memorial Landscaping Award. We will be giving that this evening to the person who has displayed outstanding landscaping and what we considered the best landscaped yard in Springdale. Believe me, there were a lot of beautiful ones. We did try to limit the awards to first, second, third and three honorable mentions in each district. There was one district that was fantastic and we could not get that down to three honorable mentions. In the Beacon/Oxford Hills area we gave seven honorable mentions. If you live in those areas you really should proud of your neighborhood. I think all of us should be proud of the whole city for that matter.

Area 1 Beacon and Oxford Hills, Kenn Road (north of I-275)

1st Place Mrs. Herbert Posey, 12131 Greencastle Drive

2nd Place White family, 677 Coxbury Circle

3rd Place Haley family, 12023 Cantrell Drive

Honorable Mention McQuiller family, 700 Harcourt Drive

Beesley family, 12005 Elkridge Drive

Gordon family, 856 Cedarhill Drive

Jones family, 905 Cedarhill Drive

Ransom family, 918 Yorkhaven Road

Seigel family, 905 Yorkhaven Road

Roberts family, 850 Summerfield Lane

Area 2 Springdale Lake Drive, Ray Norrish Drive, Glensprings area (including five cul-de-sacs)

1st Place Sinks family, 737 Glensprings Drive

2nd Place Mpagi family, 12050 Springdale Lake Drive

3rd Place Maupin family, 535 Ray Norrish Drive

Honorable Mention Varma family, 11821 Ashmore Court

Compton family, 11850 Fairsprings Court

Taylor family, 705 Glensprings Drive

Area 3 Cloverdale area, Smiley, Park and Allen, West Kemper

(west of Route 4) (north side), Kenn Road (south of I-275)

S. R. 4 (north of Kemper)

1st Place Whitaker family, 687 Cloverdale Avenue

2nd Place Harold Burkholder, 496 Cloverdale Avenue

3rd Place Wolf family, 462 Dimmick Avenue

Honorable Mention Edna Poynter, 483 Dimmick Avenue

Sowder family, 450 Smiley Avenue

Laage family, 616 Cloverdale Avenue

Area 4 Observatory area, Grandin area, Baldwin subdivison

West Kemper (south side)

1st Place Clark family, 562 Lafayette Avenue

2nd Place Lutts family, 367 Plum Street

3rd Place Miller family, 595 West Kemper Road

Honorable Mention Otis Poindexter, 563 Lafayette Avenue

Deborah Miller, 587 Observatory Drive

Kathryn Crockett, 519 Lafayette Avenue

Area 5 Glenview subdivsion, Cameron Road area, West

Sharon Road, Olde Gate

1st Place Ketring family, 403 Vista Glen

2nd Place Smith family, 10957 Fallstone Drive

3rd Place Pokrin family, 347 Glensford Court

Honorable Mention Beckner family, 375 Naylor Court

Hammel family, 457 Rockcrest Drive

Swope family, 486 Vista Glen

Area 6 Springdale Terrace subdivision, Royal Oaks subdivision,

West Kemper (east of Route 4)

1st Place Woody family, 163 Harter Avenue

2nd Place Holmes family, 11891 Lawnview Avenue

3rd Place Gowans family, 150 Balsam Court

Honorable Mention Rachel Bourne of 11825 Lawnview Avenue

Chavies family, 11760 Lawnview Avenue

Squires family, 150 Ruskin Drive

Area 7 Heritage Hill subdivision, McClellans Lane

East Crescentville Road

1st Place Hunt family, 818 Ledro Street

2nd Place Ralph Paul, 865 Tivoli Lane

3rd Place Schmidt family, 1003 Pilgrim Place

Honorable Mention McCabe family, 725 East Crescentville Road

Dixon family, 815 Ledro Street

Lawson family, 11985 Tavel Court


Princeton Hill at 30 Merchant Street

(Owned by Great Lakes, REIT, managed by CB Commercial Real

Estate Group, Inc.)

Calvary Pentecostal Church at 353 West Kemper Road

Springdale Church of the Nazarene at 11177 Springfield Pike

Honorable Mention: Springdale Family Medicine, 212 W. Sharon Road

Avon Products, Inc., 175 Progress Place

Tri-County Shell, 11595 Princeton Pike

Fay Marion Howard Memorial Award

Mrs. Herbert Posey, 12131 Greencastle Drive.

Mrs. Posey said I want to thank everyone. My husband would have been so proud. He was the first one to receive the Mayor's Award. He's so happy now I'm sure he's looking down from heaven. I want to thank everyone for everything they have done. I appreciate it. God bless you all.


RULES AND LAWS - no report

PUBLIC RELATIONS - Mrs. McNear said the newsletter is in final review. It should be mailed out next week.

PUBLIC HEALTH - no report

PUBLIC WORK - Mr. Vanover said the work is underway on schedule on the 1997 street program and should be completed in September. The driveway apron work began the week of July 7 and is scheduled to be completed in August. The Northwest Business Center construction work is completed and ready for Council's acceptance this evening.


CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS - Mr. Wilson reported the Community Center HVAC replacement work will start July 28 and be completed by the end of August. The Carmen Creek improvement plans are complete and the 401 permit has been filed with the EPA. EPA has indicated that they will have their comments sent out by the end of August. Construction will not be able to start any sooner than September of this year pending the outcome of the permit review process. S. R. 747 CSX grade separation final environmental document has been submitted to ODOT for review. A scope of service meeting to verify the required design process has been scheduled with ODOT for August 18. It is anticipated that detailed design work will begin in late September. The bids from the June 27 opening for the Community Center pool repair and improvements have been rejected and the project will be rebid in early August. Construction will now take place the end of August 1997 and April 1998. The Community Center field wiring replacement work is approximately 90% complete. The Kemper Road traffic signals project at McGillard and Lawnview is under construction and it is anticipated to be complete in October 1997. The preliminary plans are complete for the West Kemper Road storm sewer and are being reviewed by Springdale and Forest Park with a review meeting scheduled in late July. Final plans are to be complete by the end of August. Sharon Road resurfacing and bikeway field survey is approximately 50% complete and design will follow as soon as the field work is complete. We plan on completing design work in November, bid and contract for construction work next February and have the project under construction from April to October 1998. S. R. 4 improvements preliminary plans field work is under way and design will follow as soon as field work is complete.


PLANNING COMMISSION - Mr. Galster stated they met July 8. The first item was the preliminary plan approval of the proposed Target Store to be located at Century Boulevard and East Kemper Road. After a lot of discussion there was an agreement of the applicant to remove the outlots that infringed upon the McClellans Lane property. That was approved 6-1 and will come to Council for a public hearing because they requested a zoning change to a PUD.

The second item was final plan approval of Calvary Pentecostal Church and School at 11970 Kenn Road tabled from 6/10/97. That was approved 7-0.

Under new business we had the final plan approval of a proposed new ShowCase Cinemas at 12064 Springfield Pike. Right now there are nine screens there. They are proposing a total of twenty. They will build the first ten with the nine remaining open. Once the ten are built they will demolish the nine and finish putting in the second ten. They anticipate the first ten screens in February 1998 and all twenty screens in August 1998. That was approved 7-0. It's a very attractive building that will be made out of similar brick as to what the building is made out of here. It will be a great improvement over what we presently have.

The final item was the approval of a proposed addition for the Northland Group at 161 Northland Boulevard, formerly the Ground Round. It was an addition to each side of that building that was probably a little more than doubling its current size. That was tabled at the request of the applicant.

BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS - Mrs. Boice said they met last evening. Six members were in attendance. Tri-County Pontiac, 150 Northland Boulevard requested a variance to allow a painted window sign. This was on our agenda last month and there was no one in attendance so it was delayed. We did have some concerns because by the delay they were still getting advantage of that painted sign on their window. We did send them a letter telling them they needed to reappear at last night's meeting and if they did not reappear we would have a decision at that time whether they were there or not. They removed their painted anniversary sign that day and said that they would not need to attend. Rest assured, we do not play games at Board of Zoning Appeals. We were very perturbed about this. We have talked to the Building Department and they are going to pursue this further. We are not going to tolerate this type of behavior. If, in the future, it is our intention that if you are going to put a large painted sign on your business window that you realize is not within the parameters of what we feel should be allowed in the City, there will no longer be that extension that you can have that sign on the window and appear before the board. You are going to remove that sign and then appear before the Board of Zoning Appeals to see if it is allowed. As I said, we do not play games on Board on Zoning and I want to make this clear to all the businesses out there. We were very perturbed at the way Tri-County Pontiac handled this and that is not going to happen again.

Maple Knoll Village, 11199 Springfield Pike, requested a variance to allow the display of an 18" x 24" sign each Thursday and Friday before their bingo. With all the gambling around bingo has been dropping. They asked for a sign for nine months. They would put it up approximately four hours before bingo starts and it would be removed at the time bingo has started. That was granted 6-0.

Danielle Rountree, 440 Cloverdale Avenue, requested a variance to allow the construction of an addition to her residence. She had some side yard, front yard setbacks that had to be dealt with and that variance was granted 6-0.

The Northland Group, 161 Northland Boulevard, requested a variance to allow the construction of a 57 square foot pole sign. They did withdraw their request.

Jerome and Doreen Monson, 12158 Audie Court, requested a variance to allow the construction of a 12' x 12' storage barn. We only allow 120 square feet but they have a very deep back yard so we are talking a differential of two feet. That variance was granted 6-0.

Calvary Pentecostal Church, 11970 Kenn Road, requested a variance to allow a setback for the south building at their new church and school. That was granted 6-0.

ShowCase Cinemas, 12064 Springfield Pike, requested a variance to allow the construction of a new 20-screen cinema. It was requested because of the necessity in our building code about pitched roofs which would not fit in there. The pitched roof was put in in our Corridor Study and of course, there are exceptions to all rules, and this certainly is one. Also the amount of brick they would be using. They are really shoring that up. They are doing heavy landscaping. We were very pleased with what we had seen. We also realize Planning Commission had a lot of feed into that. We congratulate Planning Commission for the nice work they have done on that. My opinion in dealing with them last evening was that they were certainly open to working with you on every detail. That was granted 6-0.

Michael's Arts and Crafts, 425 East Kemper Road, requested a variance to allow existing signs to remain on their storefront. They are adding another business in that area, Wood Workers. The portion of the building they will be using really encroaches on what is the dividing wall for Michael's. Michael's sign is now centered on the mansard in front of their building and to move that over because of this slight encroachment, Michael's has no problem. Wood Workers has no problem with it so their sign will go to the side even though Michael's sign is a little bit over on the side where Wood Workers is. To maintain a really nice balance we felt it should stay as it is and that was granted 6-0.

Mr. Galster said even though we'd like to take a lot of credit for moving ShowCase along, ShowCase Cinemas should be commended. They went from a conceptual plan approval one month ago to a final plan approval. The reason they were able to do that was because the work they had with our staff and coming in and doing a class development. We tried to get a couple of the other applicants to stay around and see how their landscaping plan was put together but unfortunately we couldn't get them to do that. I think they were intimidated. Credos and congratulations to ShowCase Cinemas for a well put together plan.

Mrs. Boice said I would have to add and Mrs. McNear came up with that statement last night, it was obvious they had all their people here in the event we would have any questions about anything. The enthusiasm absolutely radiated out of these people. They are very excited. This is one of their most successful theaters. When you have businesses you can work with like that who try to do the very best and are so proud to be in Springdale, it really makes for a nice time at what can be sometimes a very long and tedious meeting.

Mr. Galster said we talk all the time about residents being second and third generations. This was one of the first ShowCase Cinemas ever built and they are rebuilding it to a first class operation. To me it's like they are second generation in Springdale as well.

BOARD OF HEALTH - no report

CIVIL SERVICE COMMISSION - Mr. Coleman said the commission acknowledges the permanent appointment of Christopher Hopkins as of June 3, 1997 to the position of firefighter/paramedic; Burdell Love, effective June 4, 1997 to the position of firefighter/EMT; and the permanent appointment of Michael Hoffman effective June 24, 1997 to the position of Chief Fire Inspector. In addition to those items I would like Council to be aware that we are moving forward with preparations in regards to testing for patrol officer. The sign ups to be tested will conclude this Friday, July 18 and the testing is scheduled for July 23 and 24. If past indicators are reliable we expect a very strong turn out for the position and we look forward to having the opportunity to fill that need with some very qualified individuals.

Mr. Danbury asked how many applicants do have we at this point?

Mr. Parham replied it was just over 200 at the end of the day. That's extremely low for this position. In the last testing process there were over 800 applicants and over 600 who actually sat for the test. As Mr. Coleman said, right now we have no vacancies; however, we've exceeded the two year period in which an eligibility list is active. We're putting this list together as we anticipate we may have a number of patrol officers retire in the near future. One may be going as early as this October and one maybe the beginning of 1998. I guess within the next 2-3 years we could lose as many as seven to retirement.

Mr. Coleman said after having discussion on this matter, we decided it was forward thinking to start preparing individuals for those potential vacancies and hopefully, not delay the process in selecting individuals to fill those positions.

Ms. Manis said do we just keep the list open? They'd be taking a test and not know if they had a job for six to twelve months.

Mr. Coleman responded we will notify those individuals who successfully pass the test. Their names will stay active on the list for consideration for up to two years. As a result, if a position becomes vacant then they will be notified if they are in a group we are currently looking at. So potentially they can take the test next week and be contacted a year from now.

Ms. Manis stated you would think most of these people already have jobs.

Mayor Webster said I have always half joking, half seriously said if there is anyone without a job then the wrong thing to do is to apply for a civil service one because it takes so long to go through the process, especially in prior years when we had 800 applicants. By the time we schedule the tests, get them graded, get interviews done, narrow the list down, background checks, etc., if you were without a job you would have starved to death by the time we get around to calling you or you would have looked elsewhere. We're probably going to lose some good qualified candidates because of that, but still I would like to commend Mr. Coleman and his committee for the proactive stance they've taken on this and have the list ready when we need it. Had they not done that and we get notification that someone is going to retire in 30-60 days there's no way the process we have to go through can react that quickly.

Mr. Coleman said the bad news is it's a long, drawn out process. The good news is individuals are excited about the possibility of being able to work in Springdale.

Mrs. Boice said I would just like to thank you again, Mr. Coleman, for coming in and keeping us so thoroughly updated.

O-K-I REPORT - no report

MAYOR'S REPORT - Mayor Webster said two meetings ago Council passed Ordinance 50-1997, the gas line project. We need 106 people to break even. We had 74 when we asked Council to pass this. I am pleased to report that as of July 15 we have 94 people signed up. We still need another twelve to break even but we have a pool of 88 people who have not responded. I think it's a pretty good bet that this project is going to pay for itself. I want to commend Council for going ahead and taking the chance that that would happen. I also received a letter dated July 7 that says:

"As you may know, CG&E's new natural gas customer choice program has been approved by PUCO. CG&E has long championed the cause of customer choice, and this natural gas program is evidence of our commitment to bring about competitive energy markets for our customers.

Simply put, this program gives residential and small commercial customers of natural gas a choice from whom they can purchase that commodity. So that you and your constituents can gain an understanding of the program, I am offering our personnel for purposes of making a presentation at one of your town meetings or council sessions. The presentation consists of a 15 to 20 minute overview of the program, followed by a "Q and A" period."

Mayor Webster said they would be more than happy to come out and address Council if you would like them to do this. We heard that this was coming but we didn't think it was coming this soon. Let me know if you want me to follow up on that.

The Church of the Nazarene received an award this evening and they sent a letter of thanks for our recognizing their landscaping efforts and also telling that they wouldn't be here tonight. I brought this up because I thought it was ironic that this letter arrived with the old City logo on their envelope and their stationary. I think it's encouraging that people did pick up on that and use it as their stationary.

I'd like to read another letter from a young man who spent five days at the Springdale Police Department's Hilton accommodations. This fellow was from Glenview, the first prisoner we have kept for them since we authorized that agreement.

"Gentlemen: There is no disclaimer about my dislike of law enforcement, especially that of Cincinnati and most of its neighboring communities. If you have walked in my shoes you would better understand my misgivings. Having spent 22 1/2 days at the Hamilton County Justice Center and Queensgate facilities prior to coming here, only reinforced my feelings. But . . . as life is teaching me, there are exceptions to everything.

Aside from my isolation and only 2 showers in 5 days, I was treated exceptionally well by everyone I came in contact with. Everyone on every shift always spoke and greeted me friendly - or asked how my meal was, or was there adequate lighting, or did I need anything. Basically just overall sincere gestures that I truly appreciated. It may not have meant anything to you guys, but it meant a lot to me. Enough for me to leave this letter with you.

You know the basics count a lot in life. Things like being courteous, kind, respectful and sincere. You don't see it much anymore. My dreaded 5 day stay here was made a little less dreadful by all of the officers I had the pleasure of meeting. You guys should wear your shield proudly. For if there is a standard to be set in law enforcement it should definitely start with all of you. Good luck and God bless."

Mayor Webster said I won't read the prisoner's name but I thought it was very nice of the man to take the time to do that.

The debris removal program is once again in high gear. We are up to 166 requests so far this month. We've had 27 in July alone.

CLERK OF COUNCIL/FINANCE DIRECTOR'S REPORT - Mr. Knox said earlier in the year Council approved the estimate of revenue sources for the City. After review by the auditor's office they stated we were over appropriated in three areas. Two of those are debatable but on one of them we did make an error. I would like to bring in a correction for Council's approval at the next meeting. It amounted to something like $793 out of a $10 million budget.

Secondly, I would like to compliment the three gentlemen who served on the driveway equalization board: Mr. David Strange, Mr. Frederick Borden, who's with us this evening, and Mr. Roger Stephenson. It was a pleasure working with them. They did an excellent job, very intelligent job and if all of our equalization boards are up to their standards, we're in good shape.

ADMINISTRATOR'S REPORT - Mr. Parham said last year was the first year for our Community Pride Yard Sale/Recycling Days. We will be engaging in that program once again. It is scheduled for Saturday, August 9 from 9:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. It involves two of our departments. We have approximately 75 booths set out on the multi-purpose courts at the Community Center. We have approximately 25 booths still available. They are for rent at $10. The booths are reserved for Springdale residents only; however, the event is open to the general public to purchase. We will permit items typically seen at garage sales. However, there will be no new items or arts and crafts permitted at the event. The deadline to reserve a booth is Wednesday, July 23. The Salvation Army will set up at the Community Center to accept any donations so those items you do not sell you can always donate to the Salvation Army. We will also have refreshments at the event.

Part II of the program is the Recycle Day event. On August 8 we will have an area at the Recreation Center to drop off recyclable materials. The following materials will be accepted: aluminum and bi-metal cans, colored and clear glass, newspapers, corrugated paper, plastic bottles, latex and oil-based paint, tires, crank case oil, lube oils, oil filters, anti-freeze, vehicle batteries, automotive oil, automatic transmission oil, diesel fuels number 1 and 2.

You can pick up paint at the Maintenance Garage on Northland Boulevard on August 22 and 23 from 8:00 a.m. to 4:30 p.m.

Once again we were well represented in the recreational fields with a number of teams finishing first. A girls' soccer team, the Red Hots, ages 10 and 11, finished first with a record of 6-1-1. They were sponsored by the Springdale/Forest Park Lions Club and coached by Rich Bauer. In girls' softball Class C, the Dairy Queen Menaces coached by Karen Farwick, won their division with a record of 11-1 and were runners-up at the Tri City girls' softball tournament. The Springdale Dragons, 7 and 8 years old, had a very impressive record of 11-1. They finished first in their division. We will be looking for resolutions at the next Council meeting to honor these teams.

Mr. Galster said I assisted the coach of the Dairy Queen Menaces. I've been in coaching for many years. This team had five games that were one run, extra inning battles back and forth. I don't know if people out there in TV land are tired of listening to the Reds but you can come down here and watch some great softball and baseball games. It's really enjoyable. Come down and watch the kids play. It's a good fun filled evening.

Mr. Parham reported today I submitted a total of 8,506 yard waste stickers to Rumpke. They will reimburse us by crediting our account. Those 8,506 stickers factor out to a dollar value of $6,379.50. I'd really like to send a warm thank you to the residents of Springdale who turned in their yard waste stickers. We had residents submit a total of 5,211 stickers, far exceeding what we had on hand at the time. I think they deserve a lot of credit for that.

Ms. Manis asked if we are getting any state money for the recycling days this year.

Mayor Webster said we made application on June 30. We have not heard back on that.




Mr. Danbury said last night on July 15 one of our former Council people and current member of Planning Commission was coming up Dimmick Avenue and noticed a fire. Initially he thought the smoke was coming from a grill but then he noticed it was thicker than what a grill would be. He saw flames shooting out of the garage so he knocked on the door and alerted the people inside. He took a garden hose and tried to put the fire out. Then he noticed gas cans right beside the fire so his career as a firefighter ended. Due to the quick action of Bob Seaman he was able to save a lot of damage to the house and may have saved some lives. I want to commend Mr. Seaman and I recommend we bring a resolution for him at the next meeting.


Bob Coleman said as I was sitting here noting the landscape awards I wanted to personally thank Mayor Webster and Council for the thoughtfulness of designating the landscape award in honor of the late Fay Marion Howard. I think that shows a lot of integrity and quality of the people of Springdale.


Mrs. McNear made a motion to adopt and Mr. Vanover seconded.

Ordinance 53-1997 passed with 7 affirmative votes.


Mr. Galster made a motion to adopt and Mr. Wilson seconded.

Ordinance 54-1997 passed with 7 affirmative votes.


Mrs. Boice made a motion to adopt and Mr. Vanover seconded.

Mr. Danbury said I want to thank Mr. Borden, Mr. Strange and Mr. Stephenson for their work on this.

Mr. Knox said I would like to thank the service organizations who contributed money in this case. We have received checks from three service organizations; the Springdale/Forest Park Lions, the Kiwanis and the Rotary Club to offset some of the expenses for some of the individuals who could not afford that. I think it's a wonderful thing. The money was requested by Mayor Webster who asked his organization; Dick Lohbeck of the Building Department who asked his organization, and I'm not sure who contacted the third one. That's what those organizations are known for and they certainly came forward in this case.

Mr. Danbury said a lot of the credit does go to Mayor Webster on that. I think he spearheaded it and it was good the other organizations did come forward. I'd like to thank them as well but I think the Mayor deserves all the credit for that.

Resolution R12-1997 passed with 7 affirmative votes.


Mrs. McNear made a motion to adopt and Mr. Vanover seconded.

Mayor Webster said I'm going on the assumption that Council is going to adopt this ordinance. I appreciate Council's support on this. This is not an easy thing for any of us to have done. We didn't relish the thought of recommending to Council that we assess people $400 to $800. There were a lot of discussions with the Capital Improvements Committee. We discussed it at length with Mr. Wilson and his committee as to whether the City could shoulder that responsibility. Sure, one year we probably could have done it but then we set the precedent for future years. We stood back and looked at the whole process over the next ten years and it's a pretty staggering sum of money for the City to have to do. In that light we recommended to Council that you do this. We've had a lot of discussion here about it. I appreciate your help and cooperation. It has not been easy on any of us.

Ordinance 55-1997 passed with 6 affirmative votes. Mr. Galster voted no.


Mrs. Boice made a motion to adopt and Mr. Galster seconded.

Mr. Parham said at the last Council meeting Mr. Osborn brought a report giving the gist of our intentions to network not only the Municipal Building but also the outlying buildings. As part of his July 3 memo to Council he outlined a number of costs associated with the server, hardware and software, also costs for the workstations and applications software. I just wanted to point out that in the July 9 memo to Council that we did experience an additional savings when the consultants went back to these markets. The total savings of the three items, the server and related hardware and software workstation computers and applications software is about $7,000. That worked in our favor having the consultants go back. I would like to point out that some of the additional work that was outlined in the July 3 memo has begun to take place. The folks have been in all this week laying the cable and the wiring for this building. They will start shortly on the Police and Fire buildings and then also building the trench to connect this building with those two buildings.

Ms. Manis asked so the total is $82,000?

Mr. Parham replied no, if you go back to the July 3 memo, there are additional costs for the network backbone of about $48,000. There is a cost also for an additional piece of equipment of about $1,100. The total, instead of $147,891 is approximately $140,000.

Ms. Manis asked did we have this budgeted?

Mr. Webster responded we had $25,000 in the budget.

Mr. Galster said not being a computer expert but having dealt with them from time to time in my business, in looking at the descriptions we have 2 mg of video memory while 4 mg is standard now. We have 32 mg of Ram; 64 is becoming the standard and we have an 8 time CD ROM; I think the smallest you see now days is 12. I know the minute you buy a computer it's outdated. It seems to me if we are going to spend this kind of money, we should make sure we have at least the most up-to-date one that we can when we do buy it. The memory, the speed on the CD ROM, the video memory, looking at it from a layman's standpoint, I see those things that are a little below the standard of what is available on the market right now. It concerns me to buy substandard when it gets outdated so fast.

Mr. Parham said as Mr. Osborn pointed out in the last meeting, we have been working with a number of consultants who have recommended these items to us. They are very good in their business. I'm in the layman area myself. Dave Butsch, our Assistant Superintendent of Public Works, is much more efficient at this type of item. He feels comfortable with it. We've had a number of meetings with these folks and we think this will handle the intentions we want to do. You are right, hardware does change rapidly.

Mr. Galster said we know now that we have entered the computer age we are going to continually upgrade computer systems. It's a foregone conclusion. My concern is that we get at least the most up-to-date now so that when we do go to sell it, reuse it, whatever, that we have the most marketable product we can get so it's most up-to-date.

Mr. Danbury said from my own personal experience I know if we got something that just came out today, and it is the latest and greatest, it's going to be dated six to ten months from now. You have a valid point. My question deals with software. Do any of the figures that we're considering tonight include any training for the latest software applications for our personnel.

Mr. Parham said most of the things involved in this proposal are things we are currently using with the exception that we are upgrading from Windows 3.1 to Windows 95; from the current Office package to Office 97; those types of things. We're going to have Debbie Dunfee, our administrative assistant in the Administration Department, be the system administrator. She will receive some training in that area. My experience has been, if we need to further train employees in the systems we will. I don't think it's necessary to outline it in here now but at the same time, a lot of this is so user friendly, I've never taken any software training on any of the software packages I have on my system. Typically you can just pick them right up.

Mr. Vanover said, Mr. Galster, as far as the CD ROM speed, currently all the programs on the market right now are only running at dual speed. The hardware is in excess of four fold of what the market has. My brother is a systems analysis tech and the market looks like maybe late this year they may see the beginning of triple speed. What they are selling are a lot of bells and whistles that right now the software is not able to support the hardware.

Mr. Wilson asked did we ever consider a lease versus purchase and maybe a two year lease so that we would be getting constant upgrades as opposed to a purchase? Are we buying something we could lease and upgrade yearly or every other year and be better off than purchasing something that will be obsolete in a year or two?

Mr. Parham replied I'm sure you can find a market to lease computer equipment. Whether that would be feasible or efficient I'm not necessarily sure. For me and the prices you are talking about for the equipment I think it's a bit wiser if you just purchase the equipment. The equipment is going to turn over. Of the number of things we have now we're going to update a few. Others we are going to place in other departments. We are purchasing them under the state purchase program. We can get a better rate with a group. When we bring those 15 in we are purchasing we can begin to move those that are currently in locations with higher speeds, higher megahertz, etc. into other departments where they either don't have a workstation or computer system, or they have a 286 or 386 and they are getting an upgrade themselves. It allows us to move them around and keep them on hand rather than coming back at a later date and looking at purchasing.

Mr. Wilson responded but we did look at leasing?

Mr. Parham replied I can't say we looked at leasing for the workstations. We did look at leasing lines. We looked at several options on how we were going to connect the satellite buildings into the server in this system that will be housed in the Municipal Building.

Mrs. Boice said perhaps my approach is more simplistic than a lot of you seated here as I spent the bulk of my business career without the benefit of computers. It always amuses me when we talk about something being obsolete. If it is working for us why does it have to be obsolete. My biggest gripe is you call someplace for information and they tell you the computer is down. When we are talking about the constant updating I realize we have to keep up with the times. It's a computer world. If the system works for us do we have to upgrade every time some new trinket comes out? This is something I don't understand. I am totally illiterate when it comes to computers. If something is working for us what is the big deal about obsolete?

Mr. Parham said I don't believe this system we are going to install is going to be obsolete any time soon. I think what you have on the market are systems that continuously change, and they are creating supposedly newer and bigger and better machines and faster machines, etc. For what this will enable us here at the City of Springdale to do, I think we will be able to work with for some time. As Mr. Osborn pointed out at the last Council meeting, it introduces a number of new things into our system that we currently do not have with the time recording system, with the ability to share data and information, not only among the individuals in the Municipal Building, but also the individuals in our satellite stations. It also begins to eliminate some of this paper trail that we go through at this point in time. At some point we hope to get the purchasing process where our department directors can simply complete the information at their stations and that information goes right into the Finance Department. Now they have to complete a requisition form. They have to ship that to the Municipal Building and we have to get the three signatures on that document. Then it has to become a purchase order. Hopefully it will eliminate some of those things. I really don't think this system is going to be obsolete any time in the near future.

Mrs. Boice said I understand that. It's going to cut our internal paperwork. I guess where I am setting my measuring point is, is this going to benefit our citizens? Are we going to be able to give them answers faster, do something for them faster? There's always paperwork no matter what your job, no matter what your computer is. I want us to be efficient but if it doesn't benefit the citizens I don't feel it's really worth anything.

Mr. Parham replied I think it shall.

Mayor Webster stated you can only expect people to work so hard. After that you have to work smarter. I think these are tools that are going to enable our work force to work a lot smarter, a lot more efficient and I think, serve the citizens of this community well. As for obsolescence, if you look back over the last 20-25 years I think we've had a pretty good record making decisions based upon what we need, and buying equipment that will suffice with reasonable growth capacity, and we've been able to stick with that. I don't think we've ever thrown something away because there is something better on the market. I think we have gotten our money's worth out of every single piece of hardware that the City has bought and I think that's what we've done here. That goes back to addressing Ms. Manis' comment about the $25,000 in the budget. We didn't give this a whole lot of thought a year ago but we knew we wanted to start moving in this direction so we wanted something in the budget. Then we got to looking at it and $25,000 is not going to get us off the ground. Do we just forget this project for 1997 and put it on 1998's budget or do we go ahead and try to get it done this year? We thought if it's a good thing for the City to do, then why wait a year to do it. We don't like coming to Council with unbudgeted items any more than you like to hear that. I think we have engaged the services of some very competent consultants and as far as ROMs and speeds, etc., this is not something that Derrick Parham, Cecil Osborn and Doyle Webster sat back and dreamed up. We think this is what we need. We're relying on the advice of paid professionals who do this for a living. I would certainly hope that you can see fit to support this legislation.

Ms. Manis said I think this is very necessary. It was brought up in the past and probably should have been done at that time or the groundwork laid. It is quite a lot of money, especially with $25,000 budgeted. New software comes along all the time just like the scanners for the time clock. Next year it will be something else. That's Mr. Galster's point. Since we are paying this amount of money you want to have the best equipment you can get right now. Why get something that is obsolete right now when you are buying it. The software isn't out there but it will be in a year or two years. I hope this equipment will last a lot longer than that. Then somebody will come back and say this program will let us work even more efficiently and better. It's always going to be dated. Like Mr. Wilson said, maybe it would be a good idea to look at leasing, at least the workstations.

Mr. Danbury said the only statement I have on obsolescence is just because it is on the market it doesn't mean we have to go that route. I think the question we have to ask the Administration tonight is, will what they are proposing fit our needs today. I can't worry about an upgrade two years from now or five years from now. We have to look at will this make our staff more efficient, more productive.

Ms. Manis said you have to look at what it will do for you in the future.

Mr. Danbury responded I know that. There are applications out there that we will never use. Should we add it because it's the latest and greatest. We have to look at this today. Will it make us a better staff and improve productivity?

Ms. Manis responded I guess we look at things differently then.

Mr. Danbury said I understand that. I can't worry about ten years from now. This system today may deal with everything ten years from now. We can't project what the problems are because we don't know what they are.

Ms. Manis said wouldn't you get the best things for your kids now if you knew they would last ten years.

Mr. Danbury said I got a Pentium computer at home. It was the latest and greatest. Five months later it was outdated. It fit my needs. It fits what I bought it for. Mr. Parham, will this fit our needs today?

Mr. Parham replied as we have assessed what we have before you this evening and our operations, we think this will meet our needs. I do not believe this system is outdated. It is not obsolete. You have new software and hardware products come out constantly. Windows 95 was a prime example. Most of our operations here are still working on Windows 3.1. It's not part of the new system but it's still getting the job done. We are now at this point and we decided to make a conscious effort not to simply jump into it but allow them to work out all the kinks, etc. I think sometimes you have to allow those things to occur. If it will better our system in the future then we can buy into that. I think what we have proposed at this point will definitely meet our needs in what we're looking to do.

Mr. Galster said I agree we need to get this computer system and I know we don't have it all budgeted it. I think it's extremely important and will improve productivity of our workers. All of those things have a lot of merit and I would vote to buy this right now. My point is back when I bought my third computer there was a basic change in memory, from 30 PIN to 72 PIN. Once I couldn't upgrade my computer anymore I had no choice but to go out and buy a new one. They weren't even making the material I required to upgrade my computer any longer. That's very possible that will happen again in the future given the advancement of computer technology. So why not put into there things that are available and acceptable standards today as being state-of-the-art so that we can live with this system the next 5-10 or 20 years and tweak it here and there. We should start with state-of-the-art today as opposed to not being able to upgrade it later because some memory chip may change and suddenly it's not available anymore. Right now it's not going to cost that much to make that difference. The prices we got on these individual computers is great pricing. I don't think you are going to beat the pricing over the course of a 2, 3, or 4 year lease. I think it's a good package. I just question whether or not we shouldn't be putting the memory in while we have the ability, while it's available, while it is the standard. The difference between the 8 times and 12 times can't be more than $10 per unit. The difference between 32 mg of RAM and 64 mg of RAM getting state-of the-art is not more than $100. We're talking 15 units. Then we're locked into the state-of-the-art right now and that gives me peace of mind.

Mayor Webster said Mr. Galster, we would be more than happy to go back to our consultants and the people we are proposing to purchase the equipment from and say to them, don't worry about what we need to get the job done today and the growth we've built into this thing. Give us the latest and greatest on the market. If that is what you want us to do we'll be more than happy to do that. If you know it's only $10 a unit then you're a lot smarter than I am and Mr. Parham and anybody else around here. So if we're talking a couple hundred dollars to make this state-of-the-art, then I totally agree it would be totally foolish not to make it state-of-the-art. Then if it's outdated a month later, then we've done the best we can do. We have no problem with that. We did not spec out the system to say give us the latest and greatest. First off, we defined what our needs were with reasonable growth and then asked what we need to do to do this. This is what you see before you this evening. As for the lease versus purchase, Mr. Wilson, I have been through a number of those scenarios. If you find somebody who will lease the equipment to you, especially in a market where we all acknowledge that it does become obsolete very quickly, the owner of the equipment will want to recover his investment early on. He will want to get the majority of that back the first or second year because he doesn't know what the value of that equipment will be in years 3, 4 and 5. You will pay through the nose for a lease. I've done enough purchase/lease scenarios in my life with computer equipment to guarantee that.

Mr. Wilson said I wanted to make sure we had exhausted all options before we ultimately purchase this.

Mr. Danbury said the Mayor touched on one thing that I think is key. The consultants didn't have a warehouse of these computers sitting around saying we need to get rid of these. They came to us, assessed our needs today. This is what they came up with. They are paid to make the best recommendation to us.

Mr. Galster said you don't think they are paid to upgrade it when we need it too.

Mr. Danbury said we pay these people. They are experts. You're not, I'm not. I feel as though this is definitely going to take care of our needs. You or I can try to be Mr. or Ms. expert but we're not. We shouldn't be paying the consultants if you or I are going to be making this decision based on what we know.

Mr. Vanover said it's good to think ahead but our thought process and what reality ends up being in the future are two different worlds of thought. Who would have dreamed when Rt. 4 was put into existence that it would handle the volume it's handling. You walk into the homes in Heritage Hill that are 35, 40, 45 years old and they have a one 60 amp service in there. That was state-of-the-art when it went in. Who would dream that a 60 amp service wouldn't even cover a kitchen today. You put a microwave on a 20 amp service. Yes, you have to look ahead but you can't budget or project the turn around speed. Used to be, from concept to design it was years. It's a matter of months now. If you want to stay on the cutting edge it's going to cost. Why do they add the bells and whistles. Because there's a price range they want to keep that at and the only way to keep that price up there is to keep these new things on. Do we need them? I don't think so. I think we paid good money for the consultants and I don't think they're going to sell us short because they know their longevity and repeat business wouldn't pay for them to do that.

Mrs. Boice said I would like all of us to come down to earth a bit. We've been living in this state-of-the-art world. I have a lot of things I bought that I thought were state-of-the-art and frankly, they aren't worth a you know what. We have been functioning very, very well as a City with what we have now. This is going to be a great improvement and cut down on the paper trail. It certainly should serve us and our residents very well. I see no reason why if this new state-of-the-art trinket comes out tomorrow that we need it. We probably don't. I think in this age we are living in, state-of-the-art, let's come down to reality. The City's been running very well with the equipment we have now. It's probably going to run even better with what we have here. What happens five or ten years from now, God only knows. It will be more state-of-the-art that won't be any better than the state-of-the-art today. That's an overworked word. Let's get on with it one way or the other, please.

Mr. Knox said obsolete in hardware and software is when you can no longer get support. We should buy units that are economically feasible for people to support the equipment. So I can foresee that the equipment we have on this purchase order is something that could be supported for a long period of time giving the City many more options.

Mr. Parham stated what we have presented here in my estimation is above the basics. We're talking about the Rams of memory going from 32 to 64. The experience we have had around here and a number of other organizations and consultants who have been servicing us the last couple of years, it's just simply having and operating efficiently with 16 megabytes of RAM, not at 32. We're talking about this system going up to 32. I think that will handle all of our needs for some time. There have been a number of comments about not thinking in the future. We looked at this project just as we look at any other project. We looked at where we want to be, what we want to accomplish, what things we would like to incorporate into the system and the organization. That's how we came up with the time recording system. That's how we came up with the e-mail system. It's looking at what we want in the future. We didn't say we need to make this purchase to continue operating as we are now. That does us no good. We are looking at what we want to do and where we want to be.

Mr. Galster said I'd like to request at least on the megabytes of RAM and the speed of the CD ROM that we get an ad price for that. Just like when we built this business or we look at the Rec Center expansion or whatever we are building a building for, we don't necessarily build that building just for what we need. We need that building plus a little more so that we have a little more room to expand so it doesn't cost us so much more money the next time we have to add a little bit here. Sometimes adding a little bit of room above and beyond what we think we need today saves us money in the long run. I would just like to see that as an option to this proposal.

Mr. Danbury said on that last point, this is not saying this the most it can grow. What he's asking for could be in here. Is that your understanding?

Mayor Webster responded there is room for growth. We didn't bare bones the system just to accommodate what we need to do today. There is room for growth in the system.

Ordinance 56-1997 passed with 7 affirmative votes.


Mr. Galster made a motion to adopt and Mrs. McNear seconded.

Ms. Manis asked did we bid this out?

Mr. Parham replied no, this is under the state purchasing program. The State determines the lowest and best bidder. They will send out an administrative report that lists a bunch of items that were determined to be the lowest and best bidder during their bidding process.

Ordinance 57-1997 passed with 7 affirmative votes.

Mayor Webster said Council, thank you very much for your support. I appreciate your lively discussion. I have asked Mr. Parham to contact the vendor first thing in the morning to see if we are talking $10 a unit to upgrade. If so, we'll issue a change order to effect that change. Thanks for your input.


Ordinance 58-1997 will be advertised for a public hearing for August 6, 1997.

Mr. Galster asked that we have Exhibit A available for the public hearing.


Mrs. Boice said I'm going to bring up the history one more time and it will be the last time. We have had the update in hand for quite some time. I was asked to review the update and I returned it to Mr. Parham. I know the last time there was some concern about the amount of money that would be spent on the history. We are talking 50-60 thousand dollars. I would just like to throw out a few figures of things we do spend money on; for example, the six festivals for $40,000 each. Over six years that's $240,000. Seventy thousand dollars of that has been blown up in fireworks which is lovely and we all enjoy and I enjoyed them. We just turned down bids for a pool slide that will be around $290,000. Not everybody in the community is going to use that pool slide anymore than everybody in the community would want a copy of the history. We're talking about a $4.1 million addition to the Recreation Center. We contribute $10,000 a year every year to the Blue Chip Campaign. We spend $20,000 on the newsletter which I'm sure does not end up on the coffee table like a copy of the history would. I'm sure it ends up in the waste basket. I have been interested in this for years and years. We have the material in hand. It is updated almost to the moment. I would just like an answer from Council so when I get that next telephone call which I average one a week, three a month, that I can tell the people no, we're not going to publish the history or yes, we're going to publish the history. It's like a monkey on my back because every call that comes into this building about the history, the reply is call Marge Boice. The schools want updates on what goes on in Springdale, it's call Marge Boice. I have a little slip I rattle off going back to the 1800s. I want Council to give me a yes or no tonight. I don't want to hear the argument that not everybody wants it. We spend money on everything else, a lot of money on a lot of things that not everybody in this community uses. If it is a dead subject I would like to make this suggestion. Because there are various organizations that are interested, is there any possible way we can take that history and copy it in some very simple, loose leaf form, maybe 50-100 copies to make it available to the organizations and to the people out there who really want it. I think we have fooled around with this long enough and it's time to get it off the burner.

Mr. Danbury said I would like to make a recommendation. Let's just put it in the form of a resolution and vote on it next time.

Mrs. Boice said we have made many trips to the Historical Society. We have used and abused those people asking them for their figures, the binderies, printers, the people who are going to lay out all the pictures. I don't know the procedure and I frankly would be embarrassed to go back to them again and have them go through this process. Mr. Parham, are those figures available; would it maybe be a 5% increase over what they told us two years ago?

Mr. Parham replied I'm not sure what percentage of inflation you would add to them. The last time, I recall, Council gave direction to have the project updated over the last ten year period. That is where we still are. You are right Mrs. Boice, you did respond back. Mayor Webster and Mr. Osborn also responded back with comments to the new chapter. Because of vacations for the author who is putting the document together; and also because she is working on a number of other issues, and there are a number of conflicts with my schedule and her schedule, we haven't scheduled a date to get together to review the comments that each of you have provided because we are still playing phone tag. We will get together and review the comments each of you has submitted. We will then comprise another final draft and send that back to you. As far as the cost for the document itself you may be safe in adding another 5% to it. I think after we complete this first phase we'll have a better sense of it and we can perhaps send it out and get estimates or we can have the individuals who are working with us provide some estimates.

Mrs. Boice said then we are still in drag time here.

Mr. Parham said as soon as she and I can get together to review the comments back from the three of you on this document, then we can begin to move forward.

Mrs. Boice said as I recall the original update was given to me five months ago.

Mr. Parham replied yes, it was around that time.

Mrs. Boice said we will be ready for another update before this thing rolls. Will somebody put it on my tombstone when it's finally printed?

Mr. Parham said I will call her first thing tomorrow morning to schedule a time that the two of us can sit down and review it.

Mayor Webster said I apologize to Mrs. Boice that this hasn't taken a fast track. We'll certainly see what we can do to goose it up. Once we finish the draft I would like to propose that we not go to press with a hardback book. I think we are on the doorstep of the billenium and I think that would be the ideal place to cut it, to print a hardback copy of the History of Springdale through the year 1999 or 2000. There has been a lot of work and effort that has gone into this. We asked that question in the survey and I think there was a very positive response. People indicated they would buy the book. I would like to follow up on Mrs. Boice's suggestion. Once we can get a good draft in hand, let us see what we can do to come up with a cheap, softback or loose leaf book that would be available at a nominal cost to the people who want the document in the year 1998. If we cut it in 1999 or 2000 it may be eighteen months to two years before we have a hardback book on the shelf. In the interim let's print a couple hundred copies in softback through the update we have now.

Mrs. Boice responded I would appreciate that, Mayor Webster, so that I could tell the schools, businesses and people that that is available. I am at the point now that when we are talking five years down the road I would be the one of the first ones who would love to buy one of those cheap copies.


Mr. Danbury said we have a Liquor license transfer from Bennihana's. There were no objections.




Items 1 and 2 dealt with tonight.

Item 3 - preliminary plan for the Crossings - public hearing August 6.

Accomplished all goals outstanding except Item 6 - ordinance updating Building Code.


Mr. Danbury said we have a resolution to the sum of $762. Mr. Knox said actually there will be three different areas. One is $29,000 which we didn't have in our budget. Suddenly the auditor decided to break another item out. For some reason they thought we had a line item for COPFAST. That's one of the three problem areas so there will be three changes to the previous one.

Mr. Danbury asked for information ahead of time to tell us why.

Mr. Danbury asked for three resolutions for the Rotary, Lions and Kiwanis Clubs for their efforts in assisting our citizens for the assessments of the driveway aprons. Mr. Danbury asked Mayor Webster if we could get representatives in.

Mr. Danbury requested a resolution for Bob Seaman.

There are three resolutions for the sports teams, the Red Hots, the Menaces and the Dragons. Also a resolution for the three members of the Assessment Board.

Mr. Parham said we'd like to have legislation for the Target rezoning and also for the PUD. We'd like to have the public hearing scheduled for August 20.

Mr. Schneider said we also want to add two ordinances adopting the State Code changes and adopting the recodification which we do on the codification update.

Mr. Danbury said I want to compliment everybody on the lively discussion tonight and we did keep it civil.

Council adjourned at 9:17 p.m.

Respectfully submitted,

Edward F. Knox

Clerk of Council/Finance Director

Minutes Approved:

Randy Danbury, President of Council

__________________________, l997