Planning Commission Meeting Minutes

13 January 1998

7:00 p.m.



  2. The meeting was called to order at 7:01 p.m. by Chairman William Syfert.


Members Present: William Syfert, Steve Galster, Tom Vanover,

Jim Young and David Okum

Members Absent: Robert Seaman (arrived at 7:53 p.m.)

Richard Huddleston (arrived at 7:05 p.m.)

Others Present: Derrick Parham, Asst. City Administrator

William McErlane, Building Official

Don Shvegzda, Asst. City Engineer

Anne McBride, City Planner

Mr. Syfert reported that Mr. Seaman left a message on my recorder that his plane should be landing about now, and I have not heard from Mr. Huddleston.


Mr. Galster moved for approval and Mr. Young seconded the motion. By voice vote, all present, Mr. Vanover who abstained, voted aye and the Minutes were approved with four affirmative votes.


    1. Report on Council
    2. Mr. Galster stated that Target was approved with contingencies by a 6 to 1 vote.

    3. 12/10/97 Letter to Meyer Sign Co. re Leasing Banner at 12075 Northwest Boulevard
    4. Listing of Planning Commission Officers and Members
    5. Board of Zoning Appeals Minutes Ė 18 November 1997
    1. To amend the preliminary plan for the Tri-County Commons PUD to allow the construction of a proposed MARS Music Store at 11805 Commons Drive (adjacent to and west of Dave & Busterís)

(Tabled 9 December 1997)

Dave Eyrich, Attorney for MARS introduced Robert Zobell, Chief Financial Officer, Chris Hendrix, Head of Construction and Architecture for MARS and Mike Flannery from Woolpert. Mr. Eyrich said we attempted to address the details that were raised in the last meeting with this submission. There were a number of items which are summarized in my letter and by Anne in her summary. The sign package has been revised and Chris Hendrix will talk about it in detail. Last time we had Packages A and B. This submittal is Option B presented in the form of three different options. Those options are basically the same sign; it is just different ways of evaluating the square footage. This is Option B presented at the previous meeting. The monument sign has been eliminated and the parapet has been reduced from 40í to 36í as suggested in that meeting. It also has individual block letters, lights all on or all off as discussed in the meeting. All of those details have been addressed and are part of this package.



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Mr. Eyrich continued the other major item is the look of the building. The revised drawings have architectural features that dress it up nicely. We paid attention to the colors and complied with the requests at the last meeting.

The waste receptacle has been located and will show the buffering around it, which I think will be a final development plan issue. The landscaping will be installed in front of the MARS building per Dave & Busterís approval, and it is our understanding that this was accomplished two weeks ago.

The existing HVAC system will be removed from the roof, and the parapet will be architecturally incorporated. I would like to ask Chris Hendrix to discuss architectural details.

Mr. Hendrix said I put together a comparison summary between us and Dave & Busterís. Dave & Busterís has 846 square feet in their front elevation, rear elevation and pylon and monument sign, four locations. I included a photographic representation of the sign on the building.

I enclosed three options for signage. From Anne and Billís standpoints there probably is only one way to calculate square footage of building, but I have Options 1, 2 and 3.

Option 1 includes the MARS letters squared out and the portion above it and each individual instrument sound stage and recording sign. The Instrument Sound Stage and Recording Sign is 129 s.f., the MARS signage is 421 s.f. for a total of 551 s.f.

Option 2 shows Instruments Sound Stage and Recording the same way but the Musicianís planet is taken off so the MARS is done in one square and the Musicianís planet is done in another square. That lowers the square footage to 475.

Option 3 shows each individual letter calculated and it lowers the musicianís planet to 33 square feet and the MARS to 159 s.f; these are actual square footages for the entire package of 322 s.f.

Mr. Hendrix showed the architectural rendering, adding that he wanted to make sure that the canopy was able to be seen, and it shows the parapet being raised from bottom portion to the top portion of 36 feet. The color is the same as on the Roberds building, more of an earth tone color. It does have the entryway, a canopy that is not lit. The only lights would be underneath the canopy itself. We do have the civil engineering done to represent the pavement brought out from the building for a safety zone for the pedestrians. The Instrument Sound Stage and Recording sign are separate channel letters with a painted background behind it, our typical type logo.

In the last meeting you saw the red and purple stripes that went through the building. After the meeting we noticed that there was some neon used on Roberds and Dave & Busterís that made an accent and seemed to fit more into the entire atmosphere, so we had a red neon line put on the top and a couple of stripes and neon line on the bottom to give some impact and dimension to the building.

Mr. Galster said our standard calculation of signs brings us to 606.5 square feet. I donít like to compare with other developers, but what is the Dave & Busterís square footage? Mr. Okum answered 63,00 square feet. Mr. Galster continued and this building is 40,000 square feet so you are three-fourths of it. For clarity, I would prefer to work off Option 1.


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Mr. Galster asked if the parapet could be molded so it isnít just straight? Dave & Busterís has cornicing all the way around it to add style and make the front edge a little deeper. Can we take the parapet back a little further to get a little more depth, toward the back of the building? Iím not sure how I feel about the neon lights. As we have gone through our zoning review, we have considered neon lights signage, so we say three feet of neon equals one square foot of signage. Do you have any idea how many feet of neon that is? Mr. Hendrix answered the building is 132 feet.

Mr. Galster asked if the color of the building was going to match the Roberds portion and not the Dave & Busterís. Mr. Hendrix answered we picked a color that was similar to both to give it some distinction between us and the other retailer. We brought the colors from the architect and the colors of the existing buliding, and wanted to learn which you would prefer. We would be comfortable with either one.

Mr. Okum stated I am in agreement regarding the cornicing. That was a comment from our earlier meeting. I also agree that your box on the front of the building is much better than at the last presentation, but it looks like a box pushed out on the front of the building, and I would like to see those returns go back into the roofline a little bit to give it some integral part, instead of a box attached to.

I do have some concerns with the neon lighting. I donít know how many runs you are using. Mr. Hendrix answered three, one for red and two for the purple. Mr. Okum continued I donít know how much it will illuminate and reflect out. Mr. Hendrix stated it is to reflect on the building and light the structure. Mr. Okum said I appreciate your willingness to do individual letters for Instruments and Sounds but I would not feel comfortable with the purple background on the Instruments, because it does look like a sign box 90% of the time.

I would feel more comfortable with the neutral color closer to the Roberds color. I would see a problem with your cornicing on the arch over the MARS because it would be cost prohibitive, but I would like you to cornice the rest of the building or it will look like a box building. You have broken it up some by the entryway and that definitely is an improvement. Your signage needs to be calculated as we always calculate it.

Ms. McBride said we have been provided details for the landscaped islands, and they are proposing to replant the material that is there. We had asked for the location and screening details for the waste receptacle area and they indicated the location but we still need screening details.

On the front access point, they made changes concurrent with our comments which we appreciated. They also revised their striping plan which we asked for as well. On the parking summary, we need to see a running tally of parking there. I have no question that there is ample parking for this facility and Dave & Busterís. My concern is that we keep those running totals for the future users of that development.

I understand that the landscaping has been planted in front of the building. I have not seen it, but there may be portions that need to be relocated, and we will work with the developer on that.

Ms. McBride said on the signage, Mr. McErlane and I have come up with 606.5 square feet for the proposed signage. We came up with 790 square feet for Dave & Busterís signage, which is different from what the applicant had indicated. (over 846 square feet). We recognize the applicant has made some changes in terms of channel lettering and extension of the parapet, the Commission needs to look at the overall amount of sign area.


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Ms. McBride added we are confused about the color; they submitted white but inidicated it would be earthtone and now I see a creamy color. That is something we can work out with the applicant. We also recommended removing the HVAC equipment from the roof, and the applicant has agreed to do this.

Addressing Ms. McBride, Mr. Galster wondered if she felt there were plenty of sparking spaces right now and no need to add additional spaces for what they are losing? Ms. McBride responded they were adding eight spaces that were being relocated from immediately in front to the northwest corner of the site. I donít think those eight spaces would be critical one way or the other.

Mr. Galster commented in Mr. McErlaneís report it indicated paved surface being increased 6300 additional square feet. There is so much parking right now, I donít see any need for additional for this tenant and maybe not even for the next one. Mr. McErlane stated part of it is the relocation of the eight parking spaces, and the other is the expansion of pavement in the back of the building for loading and the dumpster.

Mr. Young wondered how large the signage should be. Ms. McBride responded we calculate them at 606.5 square feet. They are saying they are at 551, and I would like to see them around 550 square feet by our calculations.

Mr. McErlane reported that this application is for preliminary plan approval for the PUD because it is a change of use in the building from warehouse and light industrial.

One of the reasons for a change in the square footage between this monthís proposal and last monthís is that the sign square footage for the signs that say Instruments Sound and Stage are now based on the size of the individual channel letters instead of the box sign. The individual channel letters are 2í2" and the box signs were three feet. The painted box behind it is still at 3 feet.

There still is a need for a change in the Covenants to allow this use in the building, and we would expect that to be fairly clearly defined so it identifies this type of use and this amount of square footage from the standpoint of traffic impact concerns, similar to what we did with Dave & Busterís and Roberds.

The color of the building as it stands right now is the color of Roberds. When they came in they committed to paint the entire balance of the brick part of the building their color. When Dave & Busterís came in, they modified their section of it. The yellow is Dave & Busterís. As you go further west, that is the Roberds color. Mr. Hendrix stated we tried to match Roberds as closely as possible, but it is an architectural rendering. Mr. McErlane commented the color pallet looks quite a bit lighter than what is there; it looks almost white.

Mr. Galster wondered if the square footage includes the Recording in that sign. Mr. McErlane responded

Mr. Shvegzda reported at the last meeting we discussed the traffic with the MARS development, and they still would be within the allowable for the ADT for the overall development.

On the driveway aisle being shifted to the north to go around the entranceway, to the west there is an existing aisle at the very southern row of parking that needs to be slightly modified to maintain the width of the driveway through that area.


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Mr. Okum said as traffic continues to increase in that development, did the roadway end up narrower by the detention basin than it should have been or is it because of the radius of the turn? That road seems very narrow on that section. Mr. Shvegzda said it was not built according to subdivision regulations because it is a private drive. I am almost positive it was built in accordance with the approved plans which is probably 20 feet curb to curb in that area. Mr. Okum added we need to be concerned about that if traffic increases in this area that narrowness will cause problems.

Mr. Okum wondered if the applicant would be willing to go closer to the Roberds color on the final submission? Mr. Zobell answered if I understood Mr. McErlane, the entire façade of the building had been painted Roberds colors, and we have no objection to retaining that color.

Mr. Okum wondered if there were any difficulty with cornicing over the roof system. Mr. Hendrix answered it is just from a cost perspective. There is a large amount of dollars that we put in the canopy. We are willing to do that but to do it over the parapet area is much more difficult as you said. If it is something that is from this point backÖMr. Okum added and all the way across the building. Dave & Busterís lighting is hidden behind the cornicing and is reflected up into the cornicing to give dimension to it. Iím not sure of the width of the purple band. Mr. Hendrix said the neon was to represent architectural features. If the neon light is an issue there is not a problem with taking that off. We were trying to create a look similar to the tenants in the area. It is not exposed neon. The neon is foam back so it creates a cornice effect. When you are referring to the cornice, you will have it on the red and purple. Mr. Okum said I need to see some detail on that so I can understand it.

Mr. Okum wondered if they had any problem removing the purple backdrop on your Instrument Sound Recording and Stage? Mr. Hendrix responded if that is going to make the decision of Planning to approve the signage, no. Mr. Galster wondered if the yellow had a slight purple border around the letters inside that same panel. Mr. Hendrix answered the typical logo we have is all of the Instruments Sound Recording & Stage are in yellow, so all our advertisements and promo material run with this style, as well as our trademark. Mr. Okum asked if it were painted yellow or lit yellow. Mr. Hendrix stated it is graphic 3-M tape. Mr. Okum continued so you can surround the letters with something to allow the MARS to come out. Mr. Galster was suggesting doing the same type channeling with purple with the Instruments sign. Mr. Zobell commented the difference is these letters are yellow and these are red, and once you take the purple backdrop away, the yellows will blend in.

Mr. Hendrix said so your concern is that rather than have a box behind it, you would like to have each letter appear individually. Mr. Galster added that takes away from a box look. Mr. Hendrix responded understand that the letters are eight inches off the wall. The purple backdrop is to give us dimension so they pop off the building. We made the channel letters as you requested at the last meeting. I donít understand why this wonít suffice. If we take that out, how will you see the entire Instruments? Mr. Zobell added the point is that we have four individual words to define our business and those words are instruments sound stage and recording and they are important enough to us that they are a part of our trademark logo. Mr. Okum wondered the size of the letters and Mr. Hendrix indicated that they are 2í-2" and the size of the purple is 3í.





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Mr. Okum continued so you have five inches of purple on top and five inches below. Mr. Galster added I would consider the purple and yellow together as part of that particular sign. Mr. Okum said it is an integral feature and should be calculated. Mr. Hendrix responded the last time you wanted us to make it individual. Mr. Okum said we require individual lit letter signs on most of the applications; we shouldnít treat you any differently from anybody else, but if that backdrop is integral to the words, it should be calculated as part of that signís square footage. Mr. Zobell we would have to defer to the City on how to calculate the square footage. Mr. McErlane reported I calculated it based on the lit sign. Ms. McBride is a planner and I would defer to her. Ms. McBride reported we would box around the lit letters. Mr. Okum said my interpretation would be that Instruments is a part of that signage, so I am not approving the purple background, but they say the purple background is integral to their sign to make it usable and so then I have to consider it in the calculations. Ms. McBride said the planet is a logo and is recognized as part of their sign. If they had a purple band all the way along, we wouldnít count that band as a sign area. Mr. Okum responded agreed, but now we have taken the purple band, cut it and stuck it on each individual box letter sign to make it more like a box sign. Ms. McBride commented that is a tough call. Mr. Syfert wondered the difference in square footage; I donít want us to get hung up on something we shouldnít.

Mr. McErlane stated the actual total is 606.5 square feet and the total if you count the purple rectangles would be 687 square feet. Concerning cornicing, the cornices you see on Dave & Busterís in the drivitt area are fairly easy to make. It may be a lot more difficult to do it along the brick portion.

Mr. Hendrix stated if that is something that would allow the vote to be taken, we would be happy to do that cornice. If the neon is an increase in signage, that was done to make this an architectural feature and that can be taken off. Mr. Zobell added we were willing to incur the cost of putting the neon on, but if that is leading the commission to say we need a cornice for the accentuation of it, we would definitely prefer to take it off. That would make the cost a fairly significant one.

Mr. Okum said if you wanted to put the neon on the building I would consider it and be open to it. I am a little more negative toward the 3 foot wide purple stripe lit by neon but for balance you probably would need to do it. I am not sold on the façade; it has lights on it and it still is about the same. If you are willing to do cornicing to make that an architectural feature of your building and back off on some of the strong colors, it would sell a little easier. I certainly would encourage the signage to come down; percentagewise if we look at Dave & Busterís you are heavy on signage. We are looking at signage on Dave & Busterís including the rear façade including the rear façade and signage for a front façade on this property. Ms. McBride reported the signage that was approved on the front of Dave & Busterís is 324 square feet. Mr. Hendrix added the distance we are from the freeway really puts us at a major disadvantage with any other retailer, especially Dave & Busterís. Their pylon is on I-275. We already have moved from 8í to 6í letters, and this option off the interstate really is not visible, and this is our only identification coming into the market.

Mr. Seaman arrived at 7:53 p.m.

Mr. Okum wondered the dimension of the pylon sign and Mr. Galster answered it is 225 square feet. Mr. Okum continued if you took 225 it would put you at 549 and Ms. McBride has suggested 550 s.f.



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Mr. Zobell commented we can talk about these numbers, but the problem is that signs are dimensionally scaled up and back. When you take this sign and tell us to bring it down to 500 s.f., you arenít only affecting these signs and proportionately you are affecting these signs and letters and these letters are the most critical part of our sign element. They are our name and trademark. These letters are 6 feet high; that six foot height drives every other piece of the sign element from the standpoint of proportion. We have talked to the sign people and looked at the situation and we have determined that 5 foot letters do not provide us with effective signage on that site. It will not give us the appropriate ability to attract, and 32% of our business is walk by drive by. We cannot let that segment of our business go away. We picked this location because of the accessibility visually to I-275. Because there is no back signage and no monument sign, we cannot reach 1/3 of our audience, and the costs we would incur in building this store would be too great.

We were not aware that you considered neon as part of signage and we considered it an accent to the building, but it is not a critical element to our signage. The four words, the MARS, the planet, are the critical elements, our trademark. They are how people identify us and how we will drive traffic into our business so it will be profitable. So to talk about 20 or 30 square feet with all respect to the Commission is something we cannot do proportionately. We cannot drop these letters down to five feet. It would take the square footage for the signage down to 480 or so because all the rest of these would be decreased proportionately. But, it would cause us to lose one third of the business that we are trying to attract. Mr. Hendrix reported if we changed the letters to 5 foot, the signage would go down to 437 s.f.

Mr. Huddleston stated I agree with the comments on softening the appearance of the building frontage. If we can continue the Roberds color it would be appropriate. The applicant has attempted to respond to some of our concerns with the portico entrance and with the addition of a cornice it would continue to enhance the building and add continuity. The neon if properly detailed would continue a design element that has been carried across the face of the building and add architecturally to it. As a compromise, I suggest the applicant attempt to comply with the 550 square feet as calculated by the staff, excluding the painted blocks behind the four delineated words and try to get on with this. I think they have done a reasonably good job of trying to respond to our concerns.

Larry Bergman of Springdale Kemper Associates the owners of the property have told me to not put warehouses in there, to keep the property open and add value to the property and work with the City and bring tenants that fit the traffic patterns required by the City and improve the appearance of the building. We are pretty limited on the number of people we can get for this building. MARS is absolutely a perfect use and signage is extremely critical to them. I havenít spoken to them, but I think if they canít get the signage weíre not going to have a tenant. I think the owners of the property will say that we are at the end and we will have to deal with warehousing at this point because it is costing us too much to keep the building empty. I think these people want to work with the City but at the same time I donít think it is a benefit to the City to look at that ugly warehouse and I hate to see these people leave. If there is any ability to make a compromise on the Cityís part with their signage, which is critical to them, I think they also can be extremely flexible to get the balance of the building to work. I donít have people knocking at the door; the retailers out there that I have been seeing are heavy traffic users and we steered them away.




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Mr. Bergman continued for the balance of the building we will have to look at other possibilities; some of my thoughts are office or hotel, but we have a challenge ahead. I hate to see MARS leave over a small amount of signage. Where they make compromises, I hope the City can come up with a solution that can work for them also.

Mr. Galster said when we were talking about Dave & Busterís and the pole sign, we asked about reserving a space for future tenants and nobody wanted to do that. The idea that the City is not showing flexibility is incorrect. Mr. Bergman commented I am not saying that, but they are not asking for a pylon sign either. Mr. Galster responded but they are asking for 300 square feet more than allowed even at 550. We had 439 s.f. with 5 foot letters; would that be okay if there something in the back of the building? Mr. Zobell answered there is no visibility from the back, and there is another retailer behind us that would block that further.

Mr. Galster added in terms of the cornicing I think following the neon lit area might look better than capping the top of the building. Calculating the neon as signage is in the works; itís not in effect. I agree that it can be used as an accent and look very nice unless it is overdone.

Mr. Seaman commented I have to say this presentation is eons better than the last meeting. I like the cobblestone effect, the neon striping, and the build back of the parapet; it really looks like you put a lot of work into and I appreciate that. I think the individual block lettering adds quality to it and the landscaping. As far as I am concerned it fits. I never did think Option B was out of line with the entire development, and I appreciate your trying to stay within the color patterns of the existing development. I donít know what else we as a City can ask than what you have put forth for us. It is not at all out of line with what we have seen in that development; it fits and I think we should move forward.

Mr. Huddleston said to wrap it up, I think it is an enhancement and has been a valid effort. The applicant is definitely the ideal kind of tenant for this situation. That doesnít mean weíre giving them the store but it certainly does behoove us to show reasonable cooperation in the same manner we expect from them. I would suggest that we get some consensus between this board and the applicant very quickly on the signage as calculated by the City and the signage as calculated by them. To try to compare it to Dave & Busterís is inappropriate because they have other considerations. We need to reach a consensus that puts us in that 550-600 s.f. range and get on with it.

Mr. Okum said I hear different points of view on cornicing and this board needs to give the applicant a direction to go that is consistent. I have not seen a profile on your lighting channel so I donít know what your façade will look like; if you could get us that profile it would be a lot more useful I donít have a problem with the neon. I have more of a problem with the width of your purple stripe because itís gong to be pretty bold, but on that mass of a building it probably wonít be as bold. There needs to be some adjustment. The City is saying you are at 606.5 s.f.; 324 versus 606.5 is a lot. I know you need to get your frontage, but I donít see why your signage cannot come in at 550, and Iíll hold pretty true to that.

Mr. Eyrich said I would like to clarify the position on signage. With the only visibility to I-275, they believe their smaller sign package is a minimum; the larger sign package is one they have in other cities. Since the next sign package they would be able to go to would reduce the square footage by about 160-170 s.f., it reduces it too much. They donít have the option to nip and tuck with the type of signage they have. Remember it is substantially lower than the Dave & Busterís sign on their building.


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Mr. Eyrich continued I have not been successful in asking them to come down another 50 feet, so I owe it to the Commission and to my client to say that they are firm on the 600 feet the way Springdale calculates it. This sign package is the minimum they need to be in Springdale.

Mr. Zobell added Mr. Eyrich has expressed our position more than adequately, but there is one comment that needs to be made. I donít want the Commission to feel that we are intractable from a negotiating standpoint. I donít want you to feel that we are not willing to compromise

In areas that affect the façade of the building and the project itself. We looked at a lot of different issues that were raised by this Commission and made a lot of compromises with them. We heard some comments tonight about the neon and cornice, and we certainly want to accommodate the Commission in any way we can with that. The fact of the matter is that molds are certain sizes. It is not a question of whether we would or would not like to get to 550 square feet. It is a question that there is nothing between 437 and 606 short of changing our entire sign package. Therefore with all due respect, if the motion is for 550, you might as well make the motion for 437 s.f., because there isnít anything we can do between 437 and 606. Itís that simple. I hope I am clear, but I need you to understand. Where we have the ability to compromise we have done so and would continue to do so without compromising the project. In this particular case we do not have a middle ground.

Mr. Okum commented I am not a sign person, and I need something to substantiate what you just said before I can make a judgment on your signage package. This is a preliminary plan review; it does have to go through final plan review. Mr. McErlane added it has to go to Council and back here for final plan approval. Mr. Okum continued we need something more from you to substantiate that. Mr. Zobell said would you suggest something that would satisfy you like a letter from our sign company that indicates that molds are made in round foot sizes? Is that what you are looking for or is there something else? Mr. Okum responded with verification from a local sign manufacturer. Mr. Hendrix added any sign company can make any size sign they want. We have molds developed; if we go out and build a mold it probably would be used one time. We are trying to create some economies by having molds produced for that size sign. It can be produced, but the cost to do it one time is a concern.

Mr. Seaman said I am baffled, because when I saw the pictures, MARS, Dave & Busterís and the MARS is smaller; it fits in the development. Letís move on this thing. Do we want to see warehouse go in there Ė I donít think so. I donít want to see 16 wheelers rolling in and out conflicting with the Dave & Busterís and Roberds traffic. This is an excellent use; almost a once in a lifetime use for this piece of property. We are not going to have another opportunity; letís compromise and move forward at 606.

Mr. Huddleston moved to recommend to amend the preliminary plan for Tri-County Commons PUD to allow for the construction of the proposed MARS Music Store as presented here tonight subject to the summary comments of Ms. McBride, Mr. Shvegzda and Mr. McErlane to the extent that the square footage would be 606.5 square feet as calculated by the City staff. Mr. Seaman seconded the motion.

Mr. Okum said you mentioned cornicing before and now you backed out on it. Mr. Huddleston said we are asking for that on the final plan, and maybe it should be covered tonight, but I have a concern. If we are asking the neon and striping detail and how it will be represented, do we want the cornicing in addition to that?


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Mr. Okum said I agree that the issue of cornicing needs to be addressed possibly in final plan review. Mr. Huddleston said Iíll add to the motion that in the final plan review we will reach an agreement concerning the detailing of striping with neon and the cornicing.

Voting aye were Mr. Huddleston, Mr. Seaman, Mr. Syfert and Mr. Okum. Mr. Galster, Mr. Vanover and Mr. Young voted no, and Mr. Syfert stated it will be forwarded to Council with in essence a negative vote.

Mr. Seaman suggested that Council have a copy of the Minutes prior to their discussion of MARS; I think it is important.. Mr. Galster stated all councilmembers get the Minutes.


A. Development Plan Approval of Proposed Addition at Romanoís Macaroni Grill, 925 East Kemper Road

Pete Battaglia of LJB Engineers said I represent the Brinker Corporation which owns Macaroni Grill and Chiliís. They are requesting to enlarge the dining area of the Macaroni Grill. We are looking at this bumpout on the building, the proposed addition. There now is parking, and we are proposing to eliminate that parking and expand the building. They have been very successful and want to increase their ability to serve people as well as add some of the features they have in their newer stores. A stone fireplace would be incorporated in this.

These color elevations show colors and materials. They are the same as are on the existing building with piled roofing, stucco and stone. In reviewing the comments, you will note that we did not give the same count for seating as was shown on the plan. The bottom line is different and there are actually 297 for the total number of seats with this addition. You will see that we have more than enough parking to accommodate these additional seats and will have extra parking as well.

Concerning the landscaping we have no problem concurring with the requirements on spacing and sizes of plant materials.

Mr. Syfert asked how many additional seats there would be and Mr. Battaglia answered 36 seats.

Mr. McErlane reported we had 261 existing seats but it looked like you were losing 14 seats and then adding 52 which makes it 38 seats. Mr. Battaglia said we counted these numerous times and there is actually a total of 297 seats.

Mr. McErlane reported based on 297 the required parking would be about 116 instead of 117 and there are 142 parking spaces available. The addition is 545 square feet. The zoning is PUD and could go back to Council but looking at the small amount of improvements being made, personally I didnít think it was a situation to go back to Council, but that is up to Commission councilmembers to decide.

Ms. McBride said I need to disclose to the Commission as some of you will recall, the last time Macaroni Grill was before you I was representing them, but I do not feel my comments are tainted by that prior representation.

On landscaping, the applicant didnít indicate the size of the material at the time of installation. We ask that they do so and ask that shrubs be 18 to 24 inches and trees be either 2 Ĺí caliper or 8-10 feet. Spacing was not indicated and they need to do that.


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Ms. McBride continued we believe the material they propose to surround the addition is appropriate; it matches in with some of the other landscaping and the building looks very nice. The planting beds should be mulched in a similar fashion to what is currently there.

Mr. Galster moved to approve based on the submittal of an acceptable landscaping plan. Mr. Young seconded the motion. Voting aye were Mr. Galster, Mr. Young, Mr. Vanover, Mr. Huddleston, Mr. Okum, Mr. Syfert and Mr. Seaman. Approval was granted with seven affirmative votes.

B. Development Plan Approval of Proposed 3-Story Office Building at Executive Plaza III, 135 Merchant Street

Kevin Rogus, Manager of Design and Construction for Duke Realty Investments said with me is Audie Tarpley Manager of the Pre-Construction Group.

The site was previously the location of Markets International which we acquired 7-8 years ago. We sold the southern half of the site to General Electric for their training facility and about that time the economy dried up and we held the property waiting for the right opportunity to develop it.

In 1997 we were able to acquire Executive Plaza I and II immediately east across Merchant Street from the site. We are now in a position to develop a speculative office building.

Mr. Tarpley reported this is a precast building with sandblasted finish and green tinted glass and green aluminum columns. I have the comments and will go through those.

You requested additional evergreen screening along the west property line, and we will be happy to do that. We will incorporate Anneís and Billís lists on landscaping, incorporate them and get it back in.

On the chiller, because of the noise, we will try to locate it at the center of the building and lower it down and build a wall around it and landscape around it. That gets it away form the residential area, and will hide it pretty much from the roadway. Ms. McBride asked the height of the unit and Mr. Tarpey answered it is about 15 feet. Mr. McErlane asked if they typically build some type of screen or is it going to be a visible unit? Mr. Tarpey answered we try to landscape around it. We have used screens and they become a maintenance problem so we use tall trees and shrubbery. Mr. McErlane commented it is more difficult because of the downhill slope as well. Mr. Tarpey added it is a problem trying to hide lit close to the building. We will work with you in locating it towards the center and away from the residential neighborhood.

We did not submit light fixture details and will update our lighting charts with some reflectors to prevent the overlighting of the residential areas on the west side. That will be corrected in our final submittal.

The landscaping on the screen wall at the dock area is shown as trees located toward the back of the building. We can supplement those plantings also.

The dumpster pads will be enclosed in the same material as the building and will be behind the building line. I donít think there will be much of a sight problem here because the site is 15 feet higher than the road in front of it.




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Mr. Tarpley added we will reduce the sign; we are not hung up on the building signage out front. Weíll see that it meets your requirements.

It is a general office; there is no plan for it to be a medical office. Our parking is at about 4 Ĺ to 5 per 1,000 square feet which is a demand by the users than the code. I think we are a couple of spaces under your requirement, and we may need to work with that. We have 421 planned and you have 430 required.

The landscaping plan needs to be finalized and we will incorporate Anneís comments into that plan. The pavers do define the mow line, and the sidewalks are concrete with a broom finish. We will get you the details and new photometrics for the parking lot.

Dave Hollowell our Civil Engineer of Kleingers Associates said I talked to both Don and Bill and addressed the issues of the detention areas from a maintenance standpoint and if the detention area would hold the storm coming off the site. As previously calculated, the GE project held more back than expected so we are detaining more than the 100 year storm in the detention area across Merchant Street. Our calculations came up with a negative storm and retention so everything is held in terms of holding the storm back and being able to tie the storm in. All the storm is being tied into the existing storm now.

Mr. Syfert asked Mr. Shvegzda if he had any problem with the detention. Mr. Shvegzda reported that was a situation where there was a partial submittal in November and the analysis indicated there was sufficient volume in the existing underground detention basin on the Executive Plaza I site across the street. Additional information has been sent based on the revised site plan and there still is sufficient detention volume in the existing underground detention basin so there does not need to be any additional constructed as part of this development.

Mr. Syfert said for the benefit of the Planning Commission members that may not be familiar with it, across the street from this site is an underground detention basin and it was the first one in the City of Springdale. It was new to us but it seems like it works.

Mr. Vanover wondered about the legality? Technically they are two different entities. What if one property is sold? Mr. Shvegsda answered there is an easement attached to the deed for Executive Plaza I that indicates that the owner of Executive Plaza I will accept maintenance on the detention basin and will allow the storm water from the other property to be conveyed into the detention basin. We have sent a copy of that to the city solicitor for his review and have not received his comments at that time. Mr. Syfert commented I think that should be a contingency in our motion.

Ms. McBride said on parking, our calculations indicate they are required to have 430 spaces and they are providing 421. I donít have a problem with that; I think that is a market driven function, and we are looking at revising our parking requirements in our new Zoning Code. This is with the provision that there be no medical or dental, because that drives the parking counts way up.

In term of building coverage, we permit 25% and they are at 12%. The maximum height of a building in a GB District is 48 feet and they are at 40í6" so there is no problem.




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Ms. McBride continuedI do have a real concern regarding the original

location of that chiller unit. I have represented other clients who have

used that kind of feature in sites and communities have raised that as a

red flag, in particular here where we are adjacent to a residential use.

Mapleknoll is adjacent to this and we have to protect those residents

adjacent to the proposed development. The previous location was 22

feet from the property line and we felt that entirely too close. They didnít

provide details on the height or how they would screen it. Aside from the

aesthetics, I have a concern about the noise and I would challenge the

applicant to not only relocate it but visually screen it and try to significantly

reduce any noise that might be coming out of that. Marriott for example

has done some creative things in term of sinking the unit and doing an

enclosure, so that can be done attractively and we would ask that you look

at some of those different alternatives. There is a laundry list of

landscaping comments, the majority minor.

The one item I would ask the Commission to look at very carefully is the screening of the property lien adjacent to Mapleknoll. That needs to be done with a lot more than four or eight trees.

In terms of the signage, right now they are proposing two ground mount signs. The height is more than we typically permit. The location and extremely illuminated we donít have a problem with. In terms of the lighting of the facility itself, they do maintain a minimum of .5 foot candles for the parking area. However, an amount of that spills over onto the Mapleknoll residence and I have a problem with that. Any time we are putting two uses like this side by side and the residents are already there we need to preserve the residential character so I would ask the applicant to look at the photometrics, the fixtures, the height the location and minimize that impact onto Mapleknoll.