Planning Commission Meeting Minutes

11 November 1997

7:00 p.m.


  2. The meeting was called to order at 7:02 p.m. by Chairman William Syfert.

  4. Members Present: Councilman Steve Galster, David Okum, Robert

    Seaman, Councilman Robert Wilsonl, James Young

    And Chairman Syfert.

    Members Absent: Richard Huddleston

    Others Present: Derrick Parham, Asst. City Administrator

    William McErlane, Building Official

    Don Shvegzda, Asst. City Engineer

    Anne McBride, City Planner

  6. Mr. Okum moved for adoption and Mr. Wilson seconded the motion. By

    Voice vote, all present voted aye, and the Minutes were approved with

    Six affirmatives votes.

    1. Report on Council
    2. Mr. Galster said on the Target development, it was on the agenda again. The applicant was informed that we had a conflict with the backup on Kemper Road from cars turning into their proposed development; there wasnít enough stacking. We gave them until the 5th to respond; they have an alternative suggestion that the City is looking at, so it has been tabled to the first meeting in December. All the people on McClellans Lane are under contracts with North American Properties.

    3. 10/16 Letter to Judith Muehlenhard re tabling of Record Plat Approval request
    4. Board of Zoning Appeals Minutes Ė 19 August 1997
    5. Board of Zoning Appeals Minutes Ė 16 September 1997
    1. Approval of Record Plat for Pine Garden, Section 3

Judith Muehlenhard of C J Concepts stated I am requesting approval of Lot 9, Pine Garden Section 3.

Mr. Okum asked Mr. McErlane if all submissions are in to the City, and Mr. McErlane reported Mr. Shvegzda has one issue to bring up. Mr. Shvegzda stated the plat is in accordance with subdivision regulations. However there is the issue of some encroachment into a utility easement. The applicant is in the process of getting a write off from the utilities and we would suggest that the plat be approved, but withhold signature on the plat until the information from the utilities is received.

Mr. Galster wondered how many plat approvals have been given, and Ms. Muehlenhard said I think all except four units. Mr. McErlane added seven of the 16 units are platted. Mr. Galster wondered if she were going to do this with every one or two units?




Planning Commission Meeting Minutes

11 November 1997

Page Two

Approval of Record Plat for Pine Garden Ė Section 3 Ė Continued

Ms. Muehlenhard responded we have to do it when we have the foundations in. It is a lot more trouble and expense to come back in. I am hoping one more time but I canít guarantee that.

Mr. Okum said there were outstanding issues with grade elevations, drainage issues and foundations. Have those all been resolved? Mr. Shvegzda reported there was some mediation that needed to be done regarding how that is to be drained. We would have to take care of that prior to approval of the final unit, but we do have the plans in place to take care of the problem.

Mr. Galster moved to grant the approval of record plat Section 3 as submitted, holding the signature until we get the final easement worked out with the utilities as Mr. Shvegzda suggested. Mr. Okum seconded the motion.

Voting aye were Mr.Galster, Mr. Okum, Mr. Young, Mr. Wilson, Mr. Seaman and Mr. Syfert. Approval was granted with six affirmative votes.

B. Pro Rata Share of Hamliton County Regional Planning Commission Dues

Ms. McBride reported she spoke with Ron Miller, Executive Director of the Hamilton County Regional Planning Commission and told him we wanted to know what our $250 dues covers. The major thing is the representation on the Hamliton County Regional Planning Commission itself. That representation is a five year seat and has been held for the last 15 years by Bob Alsfelder from Mariemont. He is selected by ballot and we are welcome to submit the name of one of our members to serve when Bobís seat is up in the year 2001. You also get census information which you can receive by calling but they say as a member you get it in an expedited fashion. You get access to PAS, Planning Advisory Service which we also have, and their staff is available to answer planning questions.

Mr. Wilson commented I am concerned about the way things are handled in terms of our getting a ballot a day or two beforehand, and the fact that we never really use this service. I would recommend that we not participate this year.

Mr.Galster wondered if there were any hidden things that come up every once in a while that it would be important for us to retain our membership? Itís not that much money, and I understand the frustration we have experienced, but if there is one issue that we need to have a say in that comes up, it might be important to continue on.

Ms. McBride responded two and one-half years ago they undertook to do a plan for western Hamilton County. They did involve the townships communities and cities that were in that portion of Hamliton County. I donít know that all of those are members, but they all were part of the planning process so I would like to think that if the Regional Planning Commission was going to do something like this, they would have to work with us in doing that. I canít see them doing this because of the low amount of undeveloped land in this area. That is really the only kind of widespread planning project they would do that could possibly encompass us.

Mr. Galster wondered about I-275 issues in the future? Ms. McBride answered those would come through ODOT or at the very least through the Hamilton County Engineerís Office.



Planning Commission Meeting Minutes

11 November 1997

Page Three

Approval of Record Plat for Pine Garden Ė Section 3 Ė Continued

Ms. McBride added Regional Planning Commission is designed to serve two functions. One is by law in townships that have zoning, their changes have to go to the Hamilton County Regional Planning Commission before they can come back out to the townships for their actions. So they are a recommending body to the townships.

They also serve as staff to communities that do not have staff and some places like Delhi Township will contract with them to administer their zoning. It is to serve either function required by law or communities that donít have staff to handle the volumes of work they have. I donít want to sway you one way or the other but my experience has been that all of the information I have seen is available to any one of us as residents of Hamilton County.

Mr. Okum wondered if there is any place that the Regional Planning Commission channels money funding or projects and has control or influence over those? Ms. McBride answered the only ones would be planning type, such as the Western Hamilton County Plan. I believe if they ever were to make such an effort and I donít believe they would, they would be negligent in their responsibilities as certified planners if they didnít work with Springdale regardless of whether you were members or not.

Mr. Okum commented I agree with Mr. Wilson. It is a very small amount of money, but based on the way their elections have been held, and the fact that they have not requested or involved the City of Springdale in any way except either we get a closed ballot or a request to send them $250 once a year. I feel some type of message needs to go to them that even though it is a small amount, we are not getting any bang for our buck and if they are going to provide some types of services to the cities involved with this, theyíd better start doing it or they are no use to us.

Ms. McBride reported they did offer to make available 1996ís annual report if I would send somebody downtown. My question would be if we were members, why wasnít that mailed to us, but the next time I have somebody going downtown Iíll have them pick it up.

Mr. Young commented I was looking for a recommendation from you. Quite honestly I think Bob is right and it is a waste of money so I would be in favor of not giving them the money.

Mr. Wilson added they cannot come into our city and do planning without our being involved. Secondly, $250 is $250 and we could give it to FRYS for our kids sports program. Do we really need these so called services when we pay Ms. McBride for them? In terms of them giving it to us expeditiously, I donít think there is anything we need from them tomorrow that canít wait until next week that you would get anyhow.

Ms. McBride responded aside from the representation issue, the information they mentioned with the exception of the planning advisory service, all of that other information is available to any of us as residents of Hamilton County. Pflum Klausmeier & Gehrum subscribes to the planning advisory service and part of that is the zoning news and if it is an applicable topic, Iíll put it in your packets. On occasion you have asked me to research something, and I have used this.

Mr. Galster wondered the closest community to us that uses the Hamilton County Regional Planning Commission to handle their planning. Ms. McBride responded Delhi Township uses them for zoning administration as does Symmes Township. Mr.Galster continued I would rather be in Butler Countyís because to our north developments can impact us tremendously.

Planning Commission Meeting Minutes

11 November 1997

Page Four

B Pro Rata Share of Hamilton Co. Regional Planning Commission Dues

Mr. Galster added if we had a situation where we had a surrounding community where it could impact our city, I would say we need to stay on the Commission. Ms. McBride added Springfield Township probably is the closest, and the northern portion of Sycamore Township, but Sycamore Township has contracted with a consultant for their planning needs because they didnít feel their needs were being met by the Regional Planning Commission.

Mr. Okum said Mr. Wilson had to leave in an emergency and I will move in his honor to deny the request for payment of $250 to the Hamilton County Regional Planning Commission. Mr. Young seconded the motion. Voting aye were Mr.Okum, Mr. Young, Mr. Seaman, Mr. Galster and Mr. Syfert. Mr. Syfert stated we will send a letter to the Hamilton County Regional Planning Commission advising them that we do not wish to contribute.


Mr. Syfert said before we discuss Item A, we had a phone message from the applicant of Item B asking that this be tabled. They believe they have tenants and will not need the banner.

Approval of Renovation of Perkins Family Restaurant, 370 Glensprings Drive

Wes Noble of H.A.V. Tech Inc. stated Bill and Cynthia Thiess are the new owners of Perkins. In the past few months the franchise transferred from Mike Perkins to them. At that transfer, corporate came back into the picture and put a new franchise into place. In the process, Mr. Thiess wants to improve the building and the business. We got a parking lot resurfaced and restriped; we replaced the rotten wood shakes on the side of the building and put the dark green metal onto the building. Now corporate would like to see the stone disappear off the corners of the building even though it was one of the prototype standards, and those are the drawings you are looking at, as well as to change the basic colors of the building.

When we were here in 1995, Perkins color was much lighter still in the earthtones. Lately they have changed all their colors to the two darker colors that the stucco would be done in, similar to the sample you have there.

Anne brought up the question of the two grease container dumpster container alongside the building. In the spring, Mr. Thiess plans to put a masonry enclosure around three sides with gates on the other side. If we do that the masonry enclosure would be done in the two colors you see there, an accent band and the basic color. It was not shown on this set of drawings to be done right now. Mr. & Mrs. Thiess own other units in the Cincinnati market, in Fairfield, Hauck Road and Tylersville Road, and Hauck Road is scheduled to be remodeled in 1998.

Ms. McBride stated the green neon building lighting is not in compliance with our Corridor District, but Iím not sure that we have the discretion to ask them to come into compliance with that. As the applicant indicated there are two receptacles that should be screened. If they are going to be block, maybe they can be some type of decorative block since they are right at the front door of the city. We also need the calculations to assure us that if the stone is to be removed a minimum of two sides of the elevations meet our 40% requirement for brick or stone within the Corridor District.


Planning Commission Meeting Minutes

11 November 1997

Page Five


Mr. Young said I would wonder if this wouldnít be the right time to eliminate the neon if that is part of the Corridor Study and it has been sold so it needs to meet Code regulations as of now. Mr. McErlane reported it is limited to whatever is being changed. Basically if you change the color and if you change the building materials, they have to comply with the Code. If they are not affecting the area where the neon is, I donít know that we have the authority to make them remove the neon.

Mr. Okum said if they remove the stone and we have all drivitt surfaces on the building except for some glass block, how do they get 40% stone or brick? Ms. McBride answered there is brick on that lower portion that is painted. Mr. Okum commented the whole side of the building is stark. Mr. Noble reported it has been relandscaped on that side within the past couple of months. Mr. Okum responded it is not noticeable. The glass that they replaced on the side of the building is not even glass. Mr. Noble stated they are, but all Mike Perkins had done was paint behind it. Mr. Thiess wants to do away with them.

Mr. Okum said you are asking us to allow you to remove stone from the building. I think the City has to get something back in regards to that, and that portion of your building which is the entranceway into the City of Springdale is probably the most offensive of your building. The other elevations are fine, but that side is abominable. Are you in a position to represent the owner and offer some improvements to that elevation?

Mr. Noble answered if I stand here and tell you that the owner will do it, the owner will do it. Mr. Okum wondered what the owner would do to that side. Mr. Noble answered he was talking of getting rid of those three windows and bringing the colors and trims on through that area, and he is willing to landscape on that side of the building. He also asked me about filling in the ravine along there.

Mr. Okum said I am encouraged by that, and I would like to see a landscaping plan from the developer to address that side of the building. We want to work with Perkins especially with that being the entryway to the community. Obviously it is not the time to do the exterior painting, so why donít we get our ducks in order. We can continue it tonight and carry it to the next meeting or two meetings from now if you wish.

Mr. Galster wondered if the Commission would be open to the appearance of the back side similar to the other sides of the building, and allow more signage to break that up and dress it up. It is a straight wall and thereís not much you can do unless we do some bending in that regard. I think it would be important to give them an idea as to whether or

not we would be open to that because that is about the only way you can break it up. Mr. Okum said I agree with Mr. Galster. I think the main entrance sign over the doorway into the building is not seen by hardly anybody.

Addressing the applicant, Chairman Syfert asked if he wished to have this tabled for a month or two months, and Mr. Noble indicated that he would like that for at least a couple of months. I will get everything put together and come back. Mr. Syfert said if it will be two months, why not just drop it and bring it back as New Business, and if it takes you three months, it does. Mr. Syfert said at the request of the applicant, we will drop this item.

    1. Approval of Proposed Wal-Mart Garden Center Expansion, 600 Kemper Commons Circle

Mr. Galster moved to table and Mr. Okum seconded the motion. By voice vote, all present voted aye, and this was tabled to December 9, 1997

Planning Commission Meeting Minutes

11 November 1997

Page Six


Mr. Young said I noticed that the neon on the Hooter and Remingtonís signs are partially out; do we tell them that they have to turn them off complete? Mr. McErlane said we didnít know that and weíll take a look at them. All we can do is tell them to repair it.

Mr. Galster said under Chairmanís Report on the Huntington Bank pole sign, what does that entail? Mr. McErlane reported replacement of the existing sign with the same size sign. Mr. Galster wondered if they couldn't be talked into a monument sign. Mr. McErlane commented if you want them all to be monument signs, I guess you should change the Zoning Code. Mr. Galster responded I think there are certain places where pole signs are needed, but I also think that there are places where they are not. It is more on a case by case basis. I have no problem with all the wall signs being approved if it meets the code, but I would like to see the pole signs come back in and at least have some discussion about the possibility of going to a monument sign. Mr. McErlane reported several years ago Planning Commission delegated authority to the Planning Chairman to approve sign applications that come in. If you want to change that authority and say he can approve anything but pole signs, that is fine. Mr. Galster said I wold like the opportunity to ask the applicant. Instesad of having the chairman approve all signs, maybe approve replacement of panels and wall signs. Mr. McErlane reported tht is exempt from Planning Commission review. Ms. McBride commented the Zoning Review Committee has the pleasure of startling the sign section so you might want to think about if you want to make changes to ground mounts and any procedural changes.

Mr. Galster said we actually negotiated the removal of the Used Car pole sign at Sweeneyís. Do we have a status on the removal of that one? Mr. McErlane reported I talked with Larry Snyder from Sweeney, and he indicated they are waiting for GM to come down and take the sign down and they are the only ones that can take it down.

Mr. Syfert asked if everyone will be her in December, adding that the only term that is up is Bob Wilsonís and is Councilís appointment.


Mr. Wilson moved for adjournment and Mr. Galster seconded the motion. All present voted aye, and Planning Commission adjourned at 7:50 p.m.

Respectfully submitted,



_________________,1997 _________________________

William G. Syfert, Chairman



__________________,1997 __________________________

Robert Seaman, Secretary